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0-20.711-3.69-24.608-14.347m-.615-22.956c2.871-10.453 10.663-16.192 22.352-16.192 9.228 0 18.456 4.304 21.737 16.192zM665.034 138.153c-13.534 0-23.787 4.919-29.324 12.503v-9.633h-30.76v102.48h30.76v-55.954c0-14.552 7.793-21.111 19.071-21.111 9.843 0 17.841 5.944 17.841 18.651v58.414h30.76V180.58c0-27.67-17.636-42.427-38.348-42.427M780.49 170.537v-29.514h-21.123v-28.695l-30.759 9.224v19.471h-16.407v29.514h16.407v36.278c0 28.695 11.689 40.787 51.882 36.688v-27.875c-13.535.82-21.123 0-21.123-8.813v-36.278zM813.237 246.373c10.663 0 19.48-8.813 19.48-19.472 0-10.657-8.817-19.471-19.48-19.471s-19.482 8.814-19.482 19.471c0 10.659 8.818 19.472 19.482 19.472M862.014 132.005c10.047 0 18.455-8.404 18.455-18.448 0-10.042-8.408-18.446-18.455-18.446-10.049 0-18.456 8.404-18.456 18.446 0 10.044 8.407 18.448 18.456 18.448m-15.381 111.498h30.761v-102.48h-30.761zM945.017 246.373c30.144 0 54.343-23.571 54.343-54.11s-24.199-54.11-54.343-54.11-54.342 23.571-54.342 54.11 24.197 54.11 54.342 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hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="#content-top">Why I like discussing actions items in incident reviews</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="#running-an-incident-review">Running an incident review</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500 border-l border-dashed text-body-sm text-content-secondary ml-4 pl-4" href="#the-goals-of-an-incident-review">The goals of an incident review</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="#discussing-action-items">Discussing action items</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500 border-l border-dashed text-body-sm text-content-secondary ml-4 pl-4" href="#learning-from-action-item-discussions">Learning from action item discussions</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="#addressing-some-commonly-cited-concerns">Addressing some commonly cited concerns</a></li><li class="flex flex-col gap-3 relative group"><a class="flex items-center transition text-pretty py-2 hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="#learning-and-action-arent-opposing-forces">Learning and action aren’t opposing forces</a></li></ul></div></div><div class="lg:max-w-[788px] grow flex flex-col gap-4 lg:gap-10" id="content-top"><div class="flex flex-col gap-4"><div class="flex flex-col gap-2"><h1 class="text-h3 text-balance">Why I like discussing actions items in incident reviews</h1></div><div class="flex flex-col gap-2 md:flex-row justify-between mt-auto"><div class="flex items-center gap-2"><span class="flex items-center gap-2"><div class="size-[22px] rounded-full overflow-hidden shrink-0"></div><a class="text-body-sm-emphasis leading-[1.1] w-min sm:w-auto transition hover:text-alarmalade-500" href="/blog/author/chris">Chris Evans</a></span></div><div class="text-body-sm text-content-secondary">October 7, 2024<span> — <!-- -->11 min read</span></div></div></div><div class="relative"><span class="relative overflow-hidden block align-top transition-opacity opacity-0 w-full rounded-lg"><img alt="" width="2400" height="1350" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent;view-transition-name:blog-why-i-like-discussing-actions-items-in-incident-reviews" sizes="100vw" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fab4834fca370c69fcd848a3a84d6d5f4794f2ac8-2400x1350.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=60&q=75 60w, 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1200w, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fab4834fca370c69fcd848a3a84d6d5f4794f2ac8-2400x1350.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=1920&q=75 1920w, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fab4834fca370c69fcd848a3a84d6d5f4794f2ac8-2400x1350.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=2048&q=75 2048w, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fab4834fca370c69fcd848a3a84d6d5f4794f2ac8-2400x1350.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75 3840w" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fab4834fca370c69fcd848a3a84d6d5f4794f2ac8-2400x1350.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75"/></span></div><div class="prose prose-orange text-body max-w-none mb-6"><p class="">Are <a href="https://incident.io/blog/what-is-the-incident-response-process" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="">incident</a> reviews about <strong>learning</strong> or <strong>tracking actions</strong>?</p><p class="">This question has sparked recent debate in incident management circles, including in <a href="https://www.sev0.com/#agenda" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="">my recent panel at SEV0</a> and in <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lhochstein_my-whole-shtick-is-that-i-believe-updating-activity-7245204907274690560-gYJ8?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="">this post by Airbnb engineer Lorin Hochstein</a>. Should the goal of an incident review be learning, or should it focus on tracking actionable improvements? When is the right time to discuss actions, and are they picked up just to make us feel better?</p><p class="">From my experience, learning from incidents and identifying actions are inseparable. Trying to split them into separate discussions or meetings—ostensibly to “focus on learning”—often does more harm than good.</p><p class="">To explore this in more depth, let’s break down what a balanced post-incident review should look like.</p><h2 id="running-an-incident-review" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#running-an-incident-review"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>Running an incident review</h2><p class="">Here's my baseline for running a healthy post-incident review — it shares DNA with the <a href="https://incident.io/blog/a-seven-step-framework-for-running-incident-debriefs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class=""><span style="text-decoration:underline">seven-step framework for incident debriefs</span></a> that many teams use as a starting point. While the specifics will vary depending on the organization’s size, culture, and the context of the incident, this is—in my experience—a framework that works well for most teams.</p><p class="">Incident reviews are the meetings held after the initial issue has been mitigated, often within a few days. They’re typically attended by people directly involved in the incident, along with subject matter experts and relevant stakeholders. These meetings are usually cross-functional, with representation from engineering, customer support, and sometimes leadership.</p><p class="">In my experience, they generally shouldn’t involve people who weren’t involved in the incident, and who don’t have anything to contribute. The larger the "audience" in this meeting, the harder it is for folks to talk openly — <a href="https://incident.io/blog/psychological-safety-in-incident-management" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class=""><span style="text-decoration:underline">psychological safety in incident management</span></a> is the foundation that makes honest post-incident discussion possible. It’s stressful enough walking through something that’s gone wrong without also feeling like you’re presenting to half of your engineering organization.</p><h3 id="the-goals-of-an-incident-review" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#the-goals-of-an-incident-review"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>The goals of an incident review</h3><p class="">The objective of an incident review is straightforward: to align the group on what happened, ensure everyone understands things a little better, and identify areas for improvement. Learning and action discussions shouldn’t be seen as competing priorities but rather as complementary parts of the same conversation.</p><h2 id="discussing-action-items" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#discussing-action-items"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>Discussing action items</h2><p class="">When I talk about discussing action items, I don’t mean diving deep into planning every minute detail. Nor do I mean carving out a specific time to talk about actions specifically.</p><p class="">I mean exploring improvements at contextually relevant points of the review process—improvements that might include preventing reoccurrence, enhancing reliability, or reducing future impact.</p><p class="">Some examples of how these conversations might arise:</p><ul><li>“There was a missing step after I deleted the pod. I think we should update the runbook to make this clearer.”<br/></li><li>“I don’t think anyone outside of the DevEx team group knows that. We should share it more widely in the #engineering channel.”<br/></li><li>“Given the issue only affects our version of Postgres, we should prioritize upgrading.”</li></ul><p class="">Statements like this naturally arise as you discuss the incident, and they provide fertile ground for further learning and refinement. This type of “action item” discussion doesn’t derail the review; it enhances it.</p><h3 id="learning-from-action-item-discussions" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#learning-from-action-item-discussions"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>Learning from action item discussions</h3><p class="">In many cases, action items noted during the review actually spark further questions that deepen the learning experience. Consider the following questions:</p><ul><li><em>“There was a missing step after I deleted the pod. I think we should update the runbook to make this clearer.”</em><ul><li>“Do we think people should be following that runbook without a clear understanding of what each step means?”</li></ul></li><li><em>“I don’t think anyone outside of the DevEx team group knows that. We should share it more widely in the #engineering channel.”</em><ul><li>“How is critical information like this typically shared with the wider team?”</li></ul></li><li><em>“Given the issue only affects our version of Postgres, we should prioritize upgrading.”</em><ul><li>“What's our process for updating this kind of software? Is there a reason we’re on such an old version?”</li></ul></li></ul><p class="">By discussing action items at this level of abstraction people are learning about the system and we’re suggesting improvements. Feels like a pretty positive outcome.</p><h2 id="addressing-some-commonly-cited-concerns" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#addressing-some-commonly-cited-concerns"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>Addressing some commonly cited concerns</h2><p class="">With my case above made, let’s look at some specific criticisms I hear of this approach:</p><ul><li><strong>“We should focus on learning, not action items.”</strong> <br/>I don’t agree with the notion that these two concepts conflict. If you define “discussing action items” as surfacing suggestions as they arise contextually during the incident review, you can’t reasonably separate them from the learning process without it feeling forced and unnatural. <br/><br/>If the conversation naturally sparks an idea for how something can be improved, I'd rather someone share it rather than keep it to themselves — <a href="https://incident.io/incident-response-slack" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class=""><span style="text-decoration:underline">incident response tools</span></a> make it easy to capture these suggestions in real time during the incident itself. Side note: it’s a little like suggesting a blameless review means you can’t mention names (spoiler: you can, and it helps to do so).<br/></li><li><strong>“Actions don’t make you safer; they lead to more incidents.”</strong> <br/>I don’t follow the logical conclusion here. That we should never discuss how to improve systems? All systems change over time, and it’s safe to assume most changes are net-positive. The changes we make after an incident aren’t all going to be positive, but if we’re making changes with information that suggests they’ll improve the system, I can’t see a good case for not doing them. <br/><br/>For me, the goal isn't to avoid actions but to ensure they are carefully considered — which is exactly why so many <a href="https://incident.io/blog/why-post-mortem-action-items-die" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class=""><span style="text-decoration:underline">post-mortem action items die</span></a> even when they start with good intentions. And to emphasize the importance of the point, “balanced against other priorities” means taking the actions you identify in a review, and carefully weighing them up against everything else on your plate before committing to do them. Recency bias can make the most recent thing feel like the most important thing, and it’s an important thing to be aware of it.<br/></li><li><strong>“We track action items to make ourselves feel better.”</strong> <br/>I’ve rarely seen this in practice. Most action items are well-intentioned ideas thought of by people close to the systems, who are aiming to make tangible improvements. <br/><br/>Yes, bad action items exist, and external pressures can lead to “safety theater” where you identify items solely to appease someone else. But the solution is to refine the process, not eliminate actions. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.</li></ul><p class="">And these ones, pulled directly from Lorin’s blog post…</p><ul><li><strong>“Action item discussions are likely to be of interest to a smaller fraction of the audience.”</strong> <br/>In larger incidents, where multiple teams are likely to be involved, I agree this is often the case, and I expect Lorin's background in larger organizations like Netflix and Airbnb may mean he’s seen more of this than me. <br/><br/>But I don’t think this makes the case not to discuss improvements; it makes a case not to discuss the details. I think it’s generally beneficial for everyone in attendance to gain some visibility of what’s being proposed and what impact it’s likely to have. Good facilitation is critically important to avoid a subset of the group going down a rabbit hole. And when you’re in smaller groups on more focused incidents, the level of interest in details typically increases.<br/></li><li>“<strong>Teams are already highly incentivized to implement action items that prevent recurrence.”</strong> <br/>I agree, but socializing the changes that are being proposed is still helpful. Inclusion in an incident review isn’t about providing the incentives or conditions to make sure the actions happen; it’s about raising awareness of what’s being done or proposed so everyone is on the same page. And by everyone, I include people working around the systems that are being changed (i.e. to update mental models), and people who need to understand and communicate changes elsewhere (compliance reporting, updating the board, etc). <br/><br/>And linking this to the point above about actions leading to more incidents, by socializing the action items in the review process, the 2nd order problems of these action items will be much more likely to surface. i.e. Platform team: “We’re going to upgrade the database to prevent this happening again” App dev team: “We can’t do that as there’s a legacy app that depends on this version specifically”. As a result, the database doesn’t get upgraded and causes another incident elsewhere.<br/></li><li><strong>“Incidents make organizations uncomfortable, and action items reassure them.”</strong> <br/>They do provide reassurance. But that’s not inherently a bad thing. Teams handling incidents don’t operate in a vacuum; and reassuring senior leaders, customers, and regulators is important. Tracking and communicating actions, when done thoughtfully, can be an effective way to show that progress is being made.</li></ul><div class="callout"><p class="">I’d encourage you to also read <a href="https://surfingcomplexity.blog/2024/09/28/why-i-dont-like-discussing-action-items-during-incident-reviews/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="">Why I don’t like discussing action items in incident reviews</a> by Lorin Hochstein. It’s a different take on this subject, but I think there’s a reasonable overlap in philosophy.</p></div><h2 id="learning-and-action-arent-opposing-forces" class=""><a class="heading-link" href="#learning-and-action-arent-opposing-forces"><span class="icon icon-link"></span></a>Learning and action aren’t opposing forces</h2><p class="">In reality, a successful incident review may have no action items—or it may have a dozen. If you’ve made the right changes before the review, there’s no need to artificially invent actions. If new insights emerge during the review, note them down.</p><p class="">The goal is to <strong>learn and improve</strong>—whether that’s through tracking specific actions or simply building a shared understanding and deeper knowledge of what happened.</p><p class="">For me, I’ve never thought of it as a question of “learning or actions.” It’s about providing an environment where the most fruitful discussion happens. 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srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F7971ec7063054a94ed2d9a96e15bf10cb25a3e8d-3397x3397.jpg%3Fw%3D250%26h%3D250%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F7971ec7063054a94ed2d9a96e15bf10cb25a3e8d-3397x3397.jpg%3Fw%3D250%26h%3D250%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=640&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F7971ec7063054a94ed2d9a96e15bf10cb25a3e8d-3397x3397.jpg%3Fw%3D250%26h%3D250%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=640&q=75"/></span><div class="text-pretty"><div class="text-content-primary text-body-emphasis">Chris Evans</div><div class="text-alarmalade-600 text-body-xs">Co-Founder & Field CTO</div></div></div><a class="relative inline-flex gap-2 items-center justify-center rounded-full focus-visible:outline-none focus-visible:ring-2 focus-visible:ring-offset-2 disabled:opacity-60 group/button cursor-pointer transition-[color,background-color,border-color,opacity,transform] border border-stroke-primary hover:border-stroke-hover text-content-primary dark:text-white text-body-emphasis h-[41px] px-4 py-2 max-sm:w-full" href="/blog/author/chris">View more<!-- --> <span class="hidden sm:inline">from <!-- -->Chris</span><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" class="transition ease-in-out inline-block size-5 group-hover/button:translate-x-1"><path d="M12.8 8.59965H3.00002C2.66882 8.59965 2.40002 8.33085 2.40002 7.99965C2.40002 7.66845 2.66882 7.39965 3.00002 7.39965H12.8C13.1312 7.39965 13.4 7.66845 13.4 7.99965C13.4 8.33085 13.1312 8.59965 12.8 8.59965Z" fill="currentColor"></path><path d="M9.60002 11.9996C9.53122 11.9996 9.46082 11.9876 9.39202 11.9628C9.08082 11.8476 8.92242 11.5028 9.03682 11.1924C9.66242 9.49645 10.7328 8.53005 11.5816 8.00045C10.7328 7.47085 9.66322 6.50445 9.03682 4.80845C8.92162 4.49725 9.08082 4.15245 9.39202 4.03805C9.70322 3.92125 10.048 4.08285 10.1624 4.39325C11.0656 6.84205 13.0656 7.39805 13.1496 7.42045C13.4144 7.49085 13.5992 7.73085 13.5976 8.00365C13.596 8.27725 13.412 8.51565 13.1464 8.58285C13.0648 8.60445 11.0656 9.16045 10.1624 11.6092C10.0728 11.8516 9.84402 12.0012 9.59922 12.0012L9.60002 11.9996Z" fill="currentColor"></path></svg></a></div><div class="flex-1 flex items-center text-slate-800"><p class="">I'm one of the co-founders, and Field CTO here at incident.io.</p></div></div></div></section><section class="flex flex-col gap-6"><div class="flex flex-col md:flex-row justify-between gap-4"><h2 class="text-h3">See related articles</h2><a class="relative gap-2 items-center justify-center rounded-full focus-visible:outline-none focus-visible:ring-2 focus-visible:ring-offset-2 disabled:opacity-60 group/button cursor-pointer transition-[color,background-color,border-color,opacity,transform] bg-surface-secondary hover:bg-surface-tertiary active:bg-surface-quaternary text-content-primary text-body-emphasis h-[41px] px-4 py-2 hidden md:block" href="/blog">View all<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" class="transition ease-in-out inline-block size-5 group-hover/button:translate-x-1"><path d="M12.8 8.59965H3.00002C2.66882 8.59965 2.40002 8.33085 2.40002 7.99965C2.40002 7.66845 2.66882 7.39965 3.00002 7.39965H12.8C13.1312 7.39965 13.4 7.66845 13.4 7.99965C13.4 8.33085 13.1312 8.59965 12.8 8.59965Z" fill="currentColor"></path><path d="M9.60002 11.9996C9.53122 11.9996 9.46082 11.9876 9.39202 11.9628C9.08082 11.8476 8.92242 11.5028 9.03682 11.1924C9.66242 9.49645 10.7328 8.53005 11.5816 8.00045C10.7328 7.47085 9.66322 6.50445 9.03682 4.80845C8.92162 4.49725 9.08082 4.15245 9.39202 4.03805C9.70322 3.92125 10.048 4.08285 10.1624 4.39325C11.0656 6.84205 13.0656 7.39805 13.1496 7.42045C13.4144 7.49085 13.5992 7.73085 13.5976 8.00365C13.596 8.27725 13.412 8.51565 13.1464 8.58285C13.0648 8.60445 11.0656 9.16045 10.1624 11.6092C10.0728 11.8516 9.84402 12.0012 9.59922 12.0012L9.60002 11.9996Z" fill="currentColor"></path></svg></a></div><div class="grid grid-cols-1 md:grid-cols-2 lg:grid-cols-3 gap-8 md:gap-4"><a id="1e2c2941-585f-4374-962b-9101161a346b" class="group flex flex-col" href="/blog/where-does-the-time-go-after-you-resolve-an-incident"><div class="bg-surface-tertiary rounded-lg mb-3 md:mb-6 p-0 relative aspect-video"><span class="block align-top w-full overflow-hidden transition-all ease-in-out duration-300 mx-auto absolute inset-0 group-hover:w-[calc(100%-16px)] group-hover:py-2 [&_img]:transition-all [&_img]:rounded-lg group-hover:[&_img]:rounded"><img alt="Where does the time go after you resolve an incident?" loading="lazy" width="1920" height="1080" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F24ce099a867d1a711045a45486242cec38ce57c6-1920x1080.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=1920&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F24ce099a867d1a711045a45486242cec38ce57c6-1920x1080.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F24ce099a867d1a711045a45486242cec38ce57c6-1920x1080.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75"/></span></div><div class="max-w-[546px] grow flex flex-col gap-2"><h3 class="text-h4 text-pretty">Where does the time go after you resolve an incident?</h3><p class="text-body-sm line-clamp-2">We were curious: where does the time go after an incident is resolved? To find out, we analyzed the post-incident process of 13,000 incidents and 14,000 follow-ups action items.</p><div class="flex flex-wrap items-center gap-x-4 gap-y-1"><div class="flex items-center gap-2 flex-wrap"><span class="flex items-center gap-2"><div class="size-[22px] rounded-full overflow-hidden shrink-0"><span class="relative overflow-hidden block align-top"><img alt="Eryn Carman" loading="lazy" width="100" height="100" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F13c3df986e33da4b270a0ede8c6859982f9f87f9-943x943.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=128&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F13c3df986e33da4b270a0ede8c6859982f9f87f9-943x943.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F13c3df986e33da4b270a0ede8c6859982f9f87f9-943x943.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75"/></span></div><span class="text-body-sm-emphasis leading-[1.1]">Eryn Carman</span></span></div><div class="text-body-sm text-content-secondary">July 29, 2024</div></div></div></a><a id="1a72505c-5ac2-48f3-a70e-2b47513419ba" class="group flex flex-col" href="/blog/a-guide-to-post-mortem-meetings"><div class="bg-surface-tertiary rounded-lg mb-3 md:mb-6 p-0 relative aspect-video"><span class="block align-top w-full overflow-hidden transition-all ease-in-out duration-300 mx-auto absolute inset-0 group-hover:w-[calc(100%-16px)] group-hover:py-2 [&_img]:transition-all [&_img]:rounded-lg group-hover:[&_img]:rounded"><img alt="A guide to post-mortem meetings and how we run them at incident.io" loading="lazy" width="1456" height="816" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc21e16acddb52b730d834cc111035074f07cf8ac-1456x816.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=1920&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc21e16acddb52b730d834cc111035074f07cf8ac-1456x816.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc21e16acddb52b730d834cc111035074f07cf8ac-1456x816.png%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75"/></span></div><div class="max-w-[546px] grow flex flex-col gap-2"><h3 class="text-h4 text-pretty">A guide to post-mortem meetings and how we run them at incident.io</h3><p class="text-body-sm line-clamp-2">Post-mortem meetings can play a crucial role in fostering an environment of continuous learning. Here's how we do them!</p><div class="flex flex-wrap items-center gap-x-4 gap-y-1"><div class="flex items-center gap-2 flex-wrap"><span class="flex items-center gap-2"><div class="size-[22px] rounded-full overflow-hidden shrink-0"><span class="relative overflow-hidden block align-top"><img alt="incident.io" loading="lazy" width="100" height="100" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fa4018127fefdc7ffdc853a16ecd6ab0440ed1a3e-255x255.png%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=128&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fa4018127fefdc7ffdc853a16ecd6ab0440ed1a3e-255x255.png%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fa4018127fefdc7ffdc853a16ecd6ab0440ed1a3e-255x255.png%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75"/></span></div><span class="text-body-sm-emphasis leading-[1.1]">incident.io</span></span></div><div class="text-body-sm text-content-secondary">October 11, 2023</div></div></div></a><a id="0441f269-f811-4cf7-b7af-a36ea9a558da" class="group flex flex-col" href="/blog/introducing-learning-flows"><div class="bg-surface-tertiary rounded-lg mb-3 md:mb-6 p-0 relative aspect-video"><span class="block align-top w-full overflow-hidden transition-all ease-in-out duration-300 mx-auto absolute inset-0 group-hover:w-[calc(100%-16px)] group-hover:py-2 [&_img]:transition-all [&_img]:rounded-lg group-hover:[&_img]:rounded"><img alt="Post-incident flows: Bringing consistency to your post incident processes" loading="lazy" width="2048" height="1152" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc1e3a73e7425d5fc52183ab54483920f900c9db6-2048x1152.webp%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=2048&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc1e3a73e7425d5fc52183ab54483920f900c9db6-2048x1152.webp%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2Fc1e3a73e7425d5fc52183ab54483920f900c9db6-2048x1152.webp%3Fw%3D2000%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=3840&q=75"/></span></div><div class="max-w-[546px] grow flex flex-col gap-2"><h3 class="text-h4 text-pretty">Post-incident flows: Bringing consistency to your post incident processes</h3><p class="text-body-sm line-clamp-2">With Post-incident flows, you can create a checklist of tasks and actions to ensure consistency across your teams and facilitate deeper learning.</p><div class="flex flex-wrap items-center gap-x-4 gap-y-1"><div class="flex items-center gap-2 flex-wrap"><span class="flex items-center gap-2"><div class="size-[22px] rounded-full overflow-hidden shrink-0"><span class="relative overflow-hidden block align-top"><img alt="Luis Gonzalez" loading="lazy" width="100" height="100" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="!m-0 w-full h-full object-cover" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F766eb4f4ce7a00dda2249c45aec3b6530fcd4df7-512x512.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=128&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F766eb4f4ce7a00dda2249c45aec3b6530fcd4df7-512x512.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sanity.io%2Fimages%2Foqy5aexb%2Fproduction%2F766eb4f4ce7a00dda2249c45aec3b6530fcd4df7-512x512.jpg%3Fw%3D100%26h%3D100%26q%3D80%26fit%3Dmax%26auto%3Dformat&w=256&q=75"/></span></div><span class="text-body-sm-emphasis leading-[1.1]">Luis Gonzalez</span></span></div><div class="text-body-sm text-content-secondary">October 16, 2023</div></div></div></a></div><a class="relative inline-flex gap-2 items-center justify-center rounded-full focus-visible:outline-none focus-visible:ring-2 focus-visible:ring-offset-2 disabled:opacity-60 group/button cursor-pointer transition-[color,background-color,border-color,opacity,transform] bg-surface-secondary hover:bg-surface-tertiary active:bg-surface-quaternary text-content-primary text-body-emphasis h-[41px] px-4 py-2 md:hidden" href="/blog">View all<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" class="transition ease-in-out inline-block size-5 group-hover/button:translate-x-1"><path 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1.95 2.021 3.847 3.05 5.762.177.33.392.638.664 1.078.278-.285.499-.494.699-.72q.608-.78 1.305-1.48c.858-.759 1.837-.509 2.286.547q.232.598.343 1.228a66 66 0 0 1 1.509 12.259c.016.812-.048 1.604-.622 2.224-1.29.273-2.019-.428-2.559-1.393-.596-1.065-1.132-2.164-1.763-3.378-.626.854-1.217 1.63-1.773 2.43-.332.479-.651 1.009-1.315.902-.741-.12-1.103-.694-1.26-1.383-.337-1.48-.658-2.961-.98-4.444-.643-2.962-1.302-5.921-1.915-8.89a31 31 0 0 1-.555-3.632c-.045-.521.21-1.067.329-1.6z"></path><defs><clipPath id="server-racks_svg__a"><path fill="#fff" d="M48.644 83.479c0-9.395 7.616-17.012 17.01-17.012h102.878v79.386H48.644z"></path></clipPath><clipPath id="server-racks_svg__b"><path fill="#fff" d="m185.411 28.395 59.945 103.826-32.271 18.632L153.14 47.026z"></path></clipPath></defs></svg><h2 class="text-h3 md:text-h2 text-balance max-w-[588px]">So good, you’ll break things on purpose</h2><p class="text-body md:text-body-lg max-w-[588px]">Ready for modern incident management? Book a call with one of our experts today.</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 flex-col lg:flex-row lg:gap-4"><div class="basis-1/2"><img alt="Signup image" loading="lazy" width="1176" height="641" decoding="async" data-nimg="1" class="w-full h-full object-cover rounded-lg" style="color:transparent" srcSet="/_next/image?url=%2F_next%2Fstatic%2Fimmutable%2Fmedia%2Fsignup-image.1f5nktjcty_re.png&w=1200&q=75 1x, /_next/image?url=%2F_next%2Fstatic%2Fimmutable%2Fmedia%2Fsignup-image.1f5nktjcty_re.png&w=3840&q=75 2x" src="/_next/image?url=%2F_next%2Fstatic%2Fimmutable%2Fmedia%2Fsignup-image.1f5nktjcty_re.png&w=3840&q=75"/></div><div class="basis-1/2 flex flex-col gap-6 bg-surface-secondary rounded-lg p-6"><div class="grow"><h3 class="text-body-emphasis mb-2">We’d love to talk to you about</h3><ul class="flex flex-col gap-2 text-body-serif grow"><li class="flex gap-1"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="21" viewBox="0 0 20 21" fill="none" class="mt-0.5"><path d="M9.14598 14.4365C10.6142 11.6377 12.4682 9.39312 14.6552 7.7673C15.0469 7.47672 15.1281 6.92263 14.8375 6.53205C14.547 6.1403 13.994 6.0603 13.6035 6.34971C11.5753 7.85671 9.81654 9.83428 8.35895 12.2401C7.8025 11.3648 7.19429 10.5978 6.5202 9.92016C6.1755 9.57311 5.61552 9.57312 5.27201 9.91663C4.92614 10.2601 4.92496 10.8201 5.26848 11.1648C6.14727 12.0483 6.90371 13.1165 7.58016 14.4306C7.73191 14.7247 8.03896 14.9129 8.36483 14.9094C8.69306 14.9094 8.99422 14.727 9.14598 14.4365Z" fill="#F25533"></path></svg>All-in-one incident management</li><li class="flex gap-1"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="21" viewBox="0 0 20 21" fill="none" class="mt-0.5"><path d="M9.14598 14.4365C10.6142 11.6377 12.4682 9.39312 14.6552 7.7673C15.0469 7.47672 15.1281 6.92263 14.8375 6.53205C14.547 6.1403 13.994 6.0603 13.6035 6.34971C11.5753 7.85671 9.81654 9.83428 8.35895 12.2401C7.8025 11.3648 7.19429 10.5978 6.5202 9.92016C6.1755 9.57311 5.61552 9.57312 5.27201 9.91663C4.92614 10.2601 4.92496 10.8201 5.26848 11.1648C6.14727 12.0483 6.90371 13.1165 7.58016 14.4306C7.73191 14.7247 8.03896 14.9129 8.36483 14.9094C8.69306 14.9094 8.99422 14.727 9.14598 14.4365Z" fill="#F25533"></path></svg>Our unmatched speed of deployment</li><li class="flex gap-1"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="21" viewBox="0 0 20 21" fill="none" class="mt-0.5"><path d="M9.14598 14.4365C10.6142 11.6377 12.4682 9.39312 14.6552 7.7673C15.0469 7.47672 15.1281 6.92263 14.8375 6.53205C14.547 6.1403 13.994 6.0603 13.6035 6.34971C11.5753 7.85671 9.81654 9.83428 8.35895 12.2401C7.8025 11.3648 7.19429 10.5978 6.5202 9.92016C6.1755 9.57311 5.61552 9.57312 5.27201 9.91663C4.92614 10.2601 4.92496 10.8201 5.26848 11.1648C6.14727 12.0483 6.90371 13.1165 7.58016 14.4306C7.73191 14.7247 8.03896 14.9129 8.36483 14.9094C8.69306 14.9094 8.99422 14.727 9.14598 14.4365Z" fill="#F25533"></path></svg>Why we’re loved by users and easily adopted</li><li class="flex gap-1"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="21" viewBox="0 0 20 21" fill="none" class="mt-0.5"><path d="M9.14598 14.4365C10.6142 11.6377 12.4682 9.39312 14.6552 7.7673C15.0469 7.47672 15.1281 6.92263 14.8375 6.53205C14.547 6.1403 13.994 6.0603 13.6035 6.34971C11.5753 7.85671 9.81654 9.83428 8.35895 12.2401C7.8025 11.3648 7.19429 10.5978 6.5202 9.92016C6.1755 9.57311 5.61552 9.57312 5.27201 9.91663C4.92614 10.2601 4.92496 10.8201 5.26848 11.1648C6.14727 12.0483 6.90371 13.1165 7.58016 14.4306C7.73191 14.7247 8.03896 14.9129 8.36483 14.9094C8.69306 14.9094 8.99422 14.727 9.14598 14.4365Z" fill="#F25533"></path></svg>How we work for the whole organization</li></ul></div><div class="flex justify-between items-center"><div class="w-full flex gap-4 flex-col sm:flex-row whitespace-nowrap"><a class="relative inline-flex gap-2 items-center justify-center rounded-full focus-visible:outline-none focus-visible:ring-2 focus-visible:ring-offset-2 disabled:opacity-60 group/button 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Should the goal of an incident review be learning, or should it focus on tracking actionable improvements? When is the right time to discuss actions, and are they picked up just to make us feel better?\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"c06935a38435\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://www.sev0.com/#agenda\",\"openInNewWindow\":true},{\"_key\":\"d8941bbbbe2f\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"autoDownloadFile\":false,\"displayMode\":\"normal\",\"href\":\"https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lhochstein_my-whole-shtick-is-that-i-believe-updating-activity-7245204907274690560-gYJ8?utm_source=share\u0026utm_medium=member_desktop\",\"openInNewWindow\":true}],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"954fef2ce13f\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"225a384609260\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"From my experience, learning from incidents and identifying actions are inseparable. Trying to split them into separate discussions or meetings—ostensibly to “focus on learning”—often does more harm than good.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"f4986e9809ce\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"01b6941b0e650\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"To explore this in more depth, let’s break down what a balanced post-incident review should look like.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"417dcb3d7771\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"90e0731bdd920\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Running an incident review\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-running-an-incident-review\",\"slug\":\"running-an-incident-review\"}],\"style\":\"h2\"},{\"_key\":\"997e58408f4b\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"5c966ab768d1\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Here's my baseline for running a healthy post-incident review — it shares DNA with the \"},{\"_key\":\"aa411fbc1fd6\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"c3a0ae33dd46\",\"underline\"],\"text\":\"seven-step framework for incident debriefs\"},{\"_key\":\"69b9e8699b2c\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" that many teams use as a starting point. While the specifics will vary depending on the organization’s size, culture, and the context of the incident, this is—in my experience—a framework that works well for most teams.\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"c3a0ae33dd46\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://incident.io/blog/a-seven-step-framework-for-running-incident-debriefs\"}],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"f47dee6fd946\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"cc7d972d79e50\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Incident reviews are the meetings held after the initial issue has been mitigated, often within a few days. They’re typically attended by people directly involved in the incident, along with subject matter experts and relevant stakeholders. These meetings are usually cross-functional, with representation from engineering, customer support, and sometimes leadership.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"fb9dd774663d\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"8de8d58dd5800\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"In my experience, they generally shouldn’t involve people who weren’t involved in the incident, and who don’t have anything to contribute. The larger the \\\"audience\\\" in this meeting, the harder it is for folks to talk openly — \"},{\"_key\":\"e25ff51896e7\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"d797f3befca3\",\"underline\"],\"text\":\"psychological safety in incident management\"},{\"_key\":\"2bb389a344e8\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" is the foundation that makes honest post-incident discussion possible. It’s stressful enough walking through something that’s gone wrong without also feeling like you’re presenting to half of your engineering organization.\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"d797f3befca3\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://incident.io/blog/psychological-safety-in-incident-management\"}],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"fbdaf5af6848\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"3918dbb26ad50\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"The goals of an incident review\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-the-goals-of-an-incident-review\",\"slug\":\"the-goals-of-an-incident-review\"}],\"style\":\"h3\"},{\"_key\":\"44c394548cf1\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"ddbb380d9a660\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"The objective of an incident review is straightforward: to align the group on what happened, ensure everyone understands things a little better, and identify areas for improvement. Learning and action discussions shouldn’t be seen as competing priorities but rather as complementary parts of the same conversation.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"9e21c7970886\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"17a80b48b8eb0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Discussing action items\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-discussing-action-items\",\"slug\":\"discussing-action-items\"}],\"style\":\"h2\"},{\"_key\":\"a8f2fe1a2883\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"3e654cef06330\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"When I talk about discussing action items, I don’t mean diving deep into planning every minute detail. Nor do I mean carving out a specific time to talk about actions specifically.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"de8923c682b7\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"fd46b9f44b120\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"I mean exploring improvements at contextually relevant points of the review process—improvements that might include preventing reoccurrence, enhancing reliability, or reducing future impact.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"f92aed8ea58c\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"a834289dc8110\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Some examples of how these conversations might arise:\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"adfb284dff9f\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"d5ef2bf596830\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“There was a missing step after I deleted the pod. I think we should update the runbook to make this clearer.”\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"87547176e87d\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"708bbbe4cf4e0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“I don’t think anyone outside of the DevEx team group knows that. We should share it more widely in the #engineering channel.”\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"e9aa5ed08f17\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"4487282c784c0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“Given the issue only affects our version of Postgres, we should prioritize upgrading.”\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"d62261de4b77\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"55b68907dc9a0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Statements like this naturally arise as you discuss the incident, and they provide fertile ground for further learning and refinement. This type of “action item” discussion doesn’t derail the review; it enhances it.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"00e78688101f\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"c447b463743e0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Learning from action item discussions\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-learning-from-action-item-discussions\",\"slug\":\"learning-from-action-item-discussions\"}],\"style\":\"h3\"},{\"_key\":\"19c3a6886144\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"d139dd51bdd00\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"In many cases, action items noted during the review actually spark further questions that deepen the learning experience. Consider the following questions:\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"abbcf6a65c45\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"003cef51a3a90\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"em\"],\"text\":\"“There was a missing step after I deleted the pod. I think we should update the runbook to make this clearer.”\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"b4b55be2389f\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"4276018181280\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“Do we think people should be following that runbook without a clear understanding of what each step means?”\"}],\"level\":2,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"43b98b482a43\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"09cfd83a81760\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"em\"],\"text\":\"“I don’t think anyone outside of the DevEx team group knows that. We should share it more widely in the #engineering channel.”\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"c1e4447eec48\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"c065664940aa0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“How is critical information like this typically shared with the wider team?”\"}],\"level\":2,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"ea131ef3571d\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"cafa99cfe7d30\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"em\"],\"text\":\"“Given the issue only affects our version of Postgres, we should prioritize upgrading.”\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"463136c2a88d\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"1bf8c4f612790\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“What's our process for updating this kind of software? Is there a reason we’re on such an old version?”\"}],\"level\":2,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"301f4439ebfd\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"0c506633debc0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"By discussing action items at this level of abstraction people are learning about the system and we’re suggesting improvements. Feels like a pretty positive outcome.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"fb3bcc32b3a0\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"3da9c8b1936d0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Addressing some commonly cited concerns\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-addressing-some-commonly-cited-concerns\",\"slug\":\"addressing-some-commonly-cited-concerns\"}],\"style\":\"h2\"},{\"_key\":\"1380283d5829\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"1e96636f77b50\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"With my case above made, let’s look at some specific criticisms I hear of this approach:\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"e9ffbf1dba6b\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"fc00d470f9660\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"“We should focus on learning, not action items.”\"},{\"_key\":\"fc00d470f9661\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nI don’t agree with the notion that these two concepts conflict. If you define “discussing action items” as surfacing suggestions as they arise contextually during the incident review, you can’t reasonably separate them from the learning process without it feeling forced and unnatural. \\n\\nIf the conversation naturally sparks an idea for how something can be improved, I'd rather someone share it rather than keep it to themselves — \"},{\"_key\":\"7b05bac17406\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"db540c40f482\",\"underline\"],\"text\":\"incident response tools\"},{\"_key\":\"2363038b78e7\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" make it easy to capture these suggestions in real time during the incident itself. Side note: it’s a little like suggesting a blameless review means you can’t mention names (spoiler: you can, and it helps to do so).\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"db540c40f482\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://incident.io/incident-response-slack\"}],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"b89a4524c563\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"5627ac85b8970\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"“Actions don’t make you safer; they lead to more incidents.”\"},{\"_key\":\"5627ac85b8971\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nI don’t follow the logical conclusion here. That we should never discuss how to improve systems? All systems change over time, and it’s safe to assume most changes are net-positive. The changes we make after an incident aren’t all going to be positive, but if we’re making changes with information that suggests they’ll improve the system, I can’t see a good case for not doing them. \\n\\nFor me, the goal isn't to avoid actions but to ensure they are carefully considered — which is exactly why so many \"},{\"_key\":\"dae01d86088a\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"347271e52fda\",\"underline\"],\"text\":\"post-mortem action items die\"},{\"_key\":\"084f9025ce88\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" even when they start with good intentions. And to emphasize the importance of the point, “balanced against other priorities” means taking the actions you identify in a review, and carefully weighing them up against everything else on your plate before committing to do them. Recency bias can make the most recent thing feel like the most important thing, and it’s an important thing to be aware of it.\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"347271e52fda\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://incident.io/blog/why-post-mortem-action-items-die\"}],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"776922e7eeba\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"73d52dc170b30\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"“We track action items to make ourselves feel better.”\"},{\"_key\":\"73d52dc170b31\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nI’ve rarely seen this in practice. Most action items are well-intentioned ideas thought of by people close to the systems, who are aiming to make tangible improvements. \\n\\nYes, bad action items exist, and external pressures can lead to “safety theater” where you identify items solely to appease someone else. But the solution is to refine the process, not eliminate actions. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"703261e25a39\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"a1c3892745e70\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"And these ones, pulled directly from Lorin’s blog post…\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"51c8671d56cd\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"8956934814420\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"“Action item discussions are likely to be of interest to a smaller fraction of the audience.”\"},{\"_key\":\"8956934814421\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nIn larger incidents, where multiple teams are likely to be involved, I agree this is often the case, and I expect Lorin's background in larger organizations like Netflix and Airbnb may mean he’s seen more of this than me. \\n\\nBut I don’t think this makes the case not to discuss improvements; it makes a case not to discuss the details. I think it’s generally beneficial for everyone in attendance to gain some visibility of what’s being proposed and what impact it’s likely to have. Good facilitation is critically important to avoid a subset of the group going down a rabbit hole. And when you’re in smaller groups on more focused incidents, the level of interest in details typically increases.\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"cccd5b2c9a01\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"35a74ccb5c860\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"“\"},{\"_key\":\"35a74ccb5c861\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"Teams are already highly incentivized to implement action items that prevent recurrence.”\"},{\"_key\":\"35a74ccb5c862\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nI agree, but socializing the changes that are being proposed is still helpful. Inclusion in an incident review isn’t about providing the incentives or conditions to make sure the actions happen; it’s about raising awareness of what’s being done or proposed so everyone is on the same page. And by everyone, I include people working around the systems that are being changed (i.e. to update mental models), and people who need to understand and communicate changes elsewhere (compliance reporting, updating the board, etc). \\n\\nAnd linking this to the point above about actions leading to more incidents, by socializing the action items in the review process, the 2nd order problems of these action items will be much more likely to surface. i.e. Platform team: “We’re going to upgrade the database to prevent this happening again” App dev team: “We can’t do that as there’s a legacy app that depends on this version specifically”. As a result, the database doesn’t get upgraded and causes another incident elsewhere.\\n\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"f5eb8f109c49\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"7c2e5a6d74c40\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"“Incidents make organizations uncomfortable, and action items reassure them.”\"},{\"_key\":\"7c2e5a6d74c41\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" \\nThey do provide reassurance. But that’s not inherently a bad thing. Teams handling incidents don’t operate in a vacuum; and reassuring senior leaders, customers, and regulators is important. Tracking and communicating actions, when done thoughtfully, can be an effective way to show that progress is being made.\"}],\"level\":1,\"listItem\":\"bullet\",\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"bf292a690445\",\"_type\":\"callout\",\"body\":[{\"_key\":\"738ff74c335d\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"58215b3a3e1d\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"I’d encourage you to also read \"},{\"_key\":\"71908b722f1d\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"630c0d111e94\"],\"text\":\"Why I don’t like discussing action items in incident reviews\"},{\"_key\":\"6d71d6952376\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\" by Lorin Hochstein. It’s a different take on this subject, but I think there’s a reasonable overlap in philosophy.\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_key\":\"630c0d111e94\",\"_type\":\"link\",\"href\":\"https://surfingcomplexity.blog/2024/09/28/why-i-dont-like-discussing-action-items-during-incident-reviews/\",\"openInNewWindow\":true}],\"style\":\"normal\"}],\"displayMode\":\"\",\"markDefs\":null},{\"_key\":\"1e39222dd4d3\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"bc86526973df0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"Learning and action aren’t opposing forces\"}],\"markDefs\":[{\"_type\":\"slug\",\"_key\":\"slug-learning-and-action-arent-opposing-forces\",\"slug\":\"learning-and-action-arent-opposing-forces\"}],\"style\":\"h2\"},{\"_key\":\"f6f169188cc5\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"4f4c45176f090\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"In reality, a successful incident review may have no action items—or it may have a dozen. If you’ve made the right changes before the review, there’s no need to artificially invent actions. If new insights emerge during the review, note them down.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"4190bd20ea38\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"17d92ef7b4190\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"The goal is to \"},{\"_key\":\"17d92ef7b4191\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[\"strong\"],\"text\":\"learn and improve\"},{\"_key\":\"17d92ef7b4192\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"—whether that’s through tracking specific actions or simply building a shared understanding and deeper knowledge of what happened.\"}],\"markDefs\":[],\"style\":\"normal\"},{\"_key\":\"1f9a533cfb7f\",\"_type\":\"block\",\"children\":[{\"_key\":\"852e275184eb0\",\"_type\":\"span\",\"marks\":[],\"text\":\"For me, I’ve never thought of it as a question of “learning or actions.” It’s about providing an environment where the most fruitful discussion happens. 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